MSG strangness

[Simon Woods]

Hi John and all, Why is it I often see one thing in the preview for MSG and another in the main canvas render? Is it my settings, or is it just the way it is? 

msg.jpg

[Synthetik]

It could be related to aspect ratio size differences for the MSG preview square (square), vs the canvas ( which is typically not square).

The other issue is that not all MSG processors are resolution independent. So if you are using one of more of them in your overall MSG preset, then the rendered image output can change based on the size of the canvas image it's being rendered into.

If you want to post  a specific preset, i can comment more specifically about what if going on inside of it.

[Simon Woods]

I had the canvas at 1400 square, so that wasn't it! 

What I was really after was clarification, I was getting such varied results at times I wondered if it was my config settings or something I hadn’t understood, I changed the preferences a few times but still getting a variety of unexpected effects, sometimes welcome sometimes not.

I hadn’t saved the geometric examples above, but it seems that to get what I was seeing in the preview, I had to alter the previews quite a bit away from where they were, to get the canvas to show something approaching what I had seen formerly!!

[Simon Woods]

Here’s a new example, What I see in the main advanced editor view is dragged and dropped into canvas and renders a match with what is seen in the bottom left window of the Evolution Editor, (and in the 3rd window of the advanced memories editor) but not what I see in the main window of the advanced editor.

I shall attach the whole caboodle here if its of interest! 

evolconfig

msgpreset

msgmems

[Simon Woods]

And here the rest of the bits and bobs

screenshot.jpg

sourceimg.jpg

session

[Simon Woods]

(sorry for bombardment!) Here's a new screen cap - what is in the far left middle box of the evolution editor matches the canvas, but not the main window of the msg advanced editor, or the final window of the memories patches - thats 3 different versions of the same preset, just seems to me, its not doing what its meant to do! Not that it matters, just clarification, or bringing attention to - not sure if it was just my version! 

newcapture.jpg

[Synthetik]

If you take that msg preset, and try rendering it into different size canvases. First matching the msg preview cell size, and then increasing it, you will see changes in the rendered image. I think it has to do with the nature of that particular preset, which includes a lot of non-linear filtering operations that aren't necessarily going to be resolution independent.

So you can see as the size of the rendered image gets bigger, there is some change in the details of the appearance. The generic nature of the effect is similar, but local details are changing. In this case, that's just the nature of the interaction of all of the effects you have working together to create the synthesized image.

[Synthetik]

The other issue i wanted to mention is that it's possible to put together MSG presets that might have inconsistent IO connections. So for example, if you were using the 'R out' image stream as an input to a processor, but you never actually used another processor to generate anything to put in that image stream buffer. Then it's contents could be whatever happens to be in memory when you run it, leading to potentially very inconsistent behavior in the preset's rendered output

I didn't' see that in your example, but if that is going on in some particular case, then what the preset generates could change because it might be based on whatever happens to be in an image stream that never gets initialized to anything specific.

There were some cases with a few specific texture processors we have noticed over time where they were always outputting randomized imagery (as opposed to that being tied to a specific random number seed). I didn't see that in your particular examples either, but we've tried to clean that kind of thing up when its been brought to our attention in the past. Dragging the msg preview cell to the canvas 2 times in a row and getting 2 slightly different images rendered into the same size canvas would be an indication of one of the above 2 things going on.

If you think you have uncovered some kind of specific error, as opposed to just inconsistent behavior as the preset is rendered into different size canvases, feel free to report it to tech support as a help support ticket.

[Simon Woods]

Thanks for the advise - it sure is an interesting tool with tons of potential !