Mosaic - Beginner Problem

[Gary Freedman]

Hi,

I'm failing to get Mosaic working in any form. Trying to follow the videos such as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcFcPbfzicQ.

With SA 5.5 I have

1) Picked Paint Synthesizer Classic.

2) Then I have picked File, Paint Synthesizer, New Image File Brush.

3) I selected a folder full of .png files that work as source images in SA.

4) I then select one of the Mozaic drop downs (such as abstract) and then a preset.

When I run it it only applies the preset. There is no tiling at all.

What did I miss?

Thank you,

Gary

 

 

 

[Gary Freedman]

Hi,

 

I followed you up to this point: "So now if we press action, we get a tiled painting of our beautiful initialized source brush as the paint nib, as shown below."

This worked exactly one time, and will not work again. This is the same thing that happened with my ticket - Sean (I think) helped me with a set of steps that worked once, and will not work again. I notice that the brush source keeps reverting to compuational after the preset runs. Please advise. Thanks, Gary

[Synthetik]

If you load a new paint preset file, then the parameter settings in the paint synthesizer Editor will change.

Or if you run a PASeq, one of the action steps in it might change the settings in the paint synthesizer Editor.

If you run something like a paint synthesizer QuickEdit command, or some other menu command that changes the paint synthesizer Editor settings, then the parameters might change.

But if you just press the action button again without changing anything in the paint synthesizer,  the exact same painting process is going to occur again.

Subject to any restrictions programmed inside of the paint preset itself. Like if you configured the paint synthesizer to only draw on a white canvas, and then you run it and fill in the entire canvas so it isn't white, then if you run it a second time on a non white canvas it will seem like nothing is happening because painting is restricted to only occur on white areas of the canvas and there are not any white areas to paint into.

..

So, when you say it works once and not again, what do you specifically mean by that?

Did you change to a different preset for example?  Because if you did, then the paint synthesizer Editor settings will change to match what was stored in that preset.

 

It sounds to me like you are saying that you edit a preset to do something different, like use your image folder brush, and then if you load it again (or some other preset) they are not using your image folder brush any more.  And that would indeed be true unless you save the editing changes you made either in the preset you edited, or in a different preset that you save on your hard disk.

[Gary Freedman]

Hi,

 

Please see the screen recording of what I am doing. Hopefully you got the tiny mp4 I sent - or do I actualy have to publish it to youtube...?

[Synthetik]

So yes, you edited a paint preset to use a specific image folder.

You then ran a PASeq preset, which contains one or more paint action steps.  When those paint action steps run they put their recorded information into the paint synthesizer, so your editing change is gone at that point, and everything is replaced by what is in the PASeq action step that uses the paint synthesizer.

 

So there are 2 different conceptual hoops you need to grok here.

One is that when you edit something (paint synthesizer effect, Ip Op effect, whatever) in the Editor, the changes you made live in memory in Studio Artist, but have not changed the actual preset file you might have been editing.

You need to explicitly save your changes out to disk if you want to save them inside the preset file to use later.

 

If you option click the current preset icon in the preset browser, you can overwrite the current preset file with the editing changes you made.

If you shift click the current preset icon,  a standard file dialog comes up located on your hard disk where the current preset is located that lets you save a new differently named preset file, or if you keep the name the same, it would overwrite.

You can always control click (right click on windows) the Editor panel to bring up an export preset menu command for the kind of effect you are working with.  They are also available under File : Export menus.

 

Now i said there were 2 different conceptual hoops i think you need to understand.

The second one is the difference between a Paint preset vs a Paint Action Sequence (PASeq) preset.

PASeq presets are composed of one or more individual action steps.

So an action step would be using the paint synthesizer, or one of the IpOp effects, or the Vectorizer, or whatever you can run as an action or manually do (paint a paint stroke for example) in Studio Artist.

Now as each individual action step plays back in a PASeq preset, they replace whatever is in the Editor for that operation mode they are running with the information stored in the individual action step. By information i mean all of the individual parameter ettings associated with the action step.

So for a paint preset, or a paint action step, there are over 640 different individual editable parameters that get reset in the Editor. 

You also need to understand that the action steps do not reference anything stored on disk other than what is stored in the specific PASeq preset file they come from.

So if you record a PASeq that is composed of running 3 different paint presets you bring up and play with record turned on in the PASeq editor, what is stored in the individual action steps in the PASeq are all of the individual parameter settings associated with the action step. Not a reference to whatever paint preset file you might have run when you recorded the action steps in the PASeq.

So if you make an editing change to a paint preset, and then saved that editing change back into the paint preset file, that editing change would not propagate into any PASeqs you might have originally used that preset with when you recorded the PASeq.

 

In the video screenshow you provided, you didn't save the editing change you made to the paint preset (so if you opened it again, it would be the original settings, not the changed settings), and then you immediately played a PASeq preset (which resets the paint synthesizer editor to completely different internal parameters stored in the individual PASea action steps).

And then wondered why the editing change you made to the paint synthesizer before you ran the PASeq was no longer there.

 

I hope this makes more sense now.

I can run you through how to edit an individual action step in a PASeq if that is what you are really trying to do.

You can also readthis tip that talks about how to edit a PASeq action step.

 

[Gary Freedman]

OK. Wow. I admit, I am overwhelemed. The terms which you use so freely as you mentally fly about the program in your mind as a Dev are all new to me, so when you connect the dots in your mind it all flows, but the same does not go for someone new to the program.

The actuall process of how to do things always seems to devolve into a larger discussion about how the whole app works together. That's great, but it doesn't help brand new people. What I need to get started is a step by step process of something simple that actually works, so I can build knowledge starting with just one thing that actually works.

The video I made took all of a minute or so.  Is there any way you can post a super short video, similare to mine, which shows how to use an image folder to create tiling images? You can just use my steps, but do whatever I did not do to make it work. 

Thank you for your patience.

Gary

[Synthetik]

I explained to Sean what your conceptual issue was, so i think he's going to give you some additional info in your tech support ticket, and probably another tutorial video will fall out of all of this at some point.

We are always interested in understanding what beginners do or do not get about the overall design of Studio Artist, so the feedback is always useful to us.  And sure, we do know the program backwards and forwards, so it is easy for us to fall into a mode where we start thinking everyone is approaching it the same way.

 

That said, anybody who has used a music synthesizer (or digital audio effect or audio workstation software for that matter) is going to grasp the preset editing metaphors we use in Studio Artist very quickly, since it's been a standard convention for those devices and associated software forever.

But if you are new to that, and especially if you are coming from an ios background, then you might have a few mental adjustments to make.  Apple in particular has de-emphasized things like the file save menu recently.  The file system is totally hidden from the user on ios devices.  And the notion of things like individual preset files are discouraged, with everything like that hidden from view in some internal database.

 

Here's a way to think about it.

Any effect you use in Studio Artist is going to be controlled by a number of different editable parameters.

You can adjust the parameters inside of the Editor we provide.

An effect could be some kind of paint effect, or some kind of image processign effect, or some kind or texture synthesis effect.  Whatever.

They all have adjustable parameters.  Think slider or knob you can change, if parameter is too fancy a term.

You adjust the slider, you adjust the effect in some way.

 

Preset files are just a mechanism to save and restore sets of adjustable parameters associated with the effect.

When you are editing those adjustable parameters in the Editor, changing the sliders in some way to change the appearance of the effect, those changes live inside of memory until you explicitly save them out to a preset file.

And if you open up a new preset file (import it), then whatever slider settings are currently in the Editor are going to be replaced by the slider settings stored in the preset file you just imported.

 

Paint Action Sequence (PASeq) presets are a special kind of preset file that is a script of multiple visual effects actions.

So in a PASeq preset, you could record and playback multiple different paint actions, or paint actions combined with image processing actions.  Whatever you can do in Studio Artist with visual effects you can record as action steps in a PASeq.  And then you can play back those action steps in the PASeq, and all of the different visual effect steps you recorded in the PASeq will be reproduced.

Once again, every time you playback an action step in a PASeq, whatever settings are currently active in the Editor are going to be replaced by the recorded settings stored in the action step in the PASeq that is playing back.

 

Let's say you playback a single action step from a PASeq that paints something.

The operation mode will change to paint synthesizer, and the Editor sliders will change to match what was recoded inside of that action step.

Now suppose you change a slider in the Editor, make the brush size bigger for example.

If you press the action button, then you will run the paint synthesizer with the editing change you made (because you are in the paint synthesizer operation mode), and the brush size will be bigger as it paints.

But all you changed are the Editor settings in memory for the paint synthesizer.

You didn't change the actual action step recorded in the PASeq at all.

And you also didn't change anything in the PASeq preset file associated with that PASeq.

So if you want to record the slider editing change made in the Editor back into the PASeq action step, you would have to option click (alt on windows) the red keyframe cell associated with that action step.  Or run the appropriate contextural menu command if you control clicked on the action step.

This would record the editing change you made in the Editor back into the action step sitting insde of the PASeq.

 

So now you have made an editing change to your PASeq.  In memory.

If you want to save that editing change out to a PASeq preset file sitting on your hard disk, you need to explicitly do that. By running the appropriate menu command.

[Gary Freedman]

Thank you again. I am going to look at all this in the morning and see if I can make sense of it. 

Gary

[Gary Freedman]

Next morning.....

Here is what I wrote to Sean in the related ticket for this:

Hi Sean,

That helped, thanks. My basic problem was that I didn't realize you had to save out and then edit your presets. I assumed they would just work out of the box.

I got it to work consistently using your tips. (This video helped make yur point clear to me: https://synthetik.com/how-to-create-and-edit-a-paint-action-sequenc...).

 

Thanks again,

 

Gary

 

P.S.

I will be reading through all you have written to gain more understanding. Thanks again for your patience.

 

[Gary Freedman]

P.S. I just re-read all you wrote an now it makes sense to me. Thanks again.

[Synthetik]

Buried in your initial confusion is an interesting observation that we have thought about before here.  It would be cool to have a way to temporarily override the brush assets associated with PASeq presets. So you could select some alternate brush asset, like your own custom image folder for image folder brushes, and then be able to divert factory PASeq presets so they would use your alternate brush asset instead of what was recorded in them.

It would make it easier to try out factory presets with custom image folder brushes.  Without having to go through the Editor to individually edit specific PASeq action steps, which is how you have to do it now.

So i'll think about adding this in some form to V6.